As a writer and a memoirist (albeit not a famous one by any stretch of the imagination), I thoroughly enjoyed your ruminations on all of this. I do think that there is something inside of us that wants to connect with people who share some beliefs or characteristics with us (I am a white feminist who used to live in the same Pacific NW town as Lindy and saw her speak in person a few times and it was thrilling to think that we had things in common). And, sadly, I think that in our minds, we begin to create stories about all of the things that extrapolate from those thin connections - "well, Lindy would certainly feel the same way I do about X" - because we want (need? desperately crave?) that sense of belonging via confirmation bias. So when we discover that there is something fundamentally different about the way they think or live their life, those of us who haven't spent a lot of time practicing unconditional positive regard begin to feel betrayed or misled. It is a strange phenomenon that we either get angry or feel as though there is something "wrong" with that person that we now need to offer them advice to fix ("get divorced, Lindy!") rather than slowing down to realize that it is possible for us to witness someone else's story and identify deeply with parts of it while having other parts of it feel alien or frightening or downright "wrong," and still have affection for them and see them as worthy of our admiration. That was a lot of words, but clearly, you can see how this post struck a chord with me. ;-)
So grateful for this reflection, and it feels like an important addition to the conversation here. I love the presence to pause and notice what you’re putting onto a stranger and what lesson might be there for you. I realize that the unexamined version of those emotions often create some real messes (and must be really tough for legitimately famous people), but in a different light it makes me very optimistic. There’s something there… in that drive for connection, in all the feelings towards and for another person that we often put into the relative void of parasociality… that could help grow something really beautiful in our immediate relationships. I think you highlighted a really important reflective exercise to help unlock it.
No one who experiences me para-socially here will be surprised to find that I have THOUGHTS about Lindy West's marriage and memoir, even though I haven't read the latter and even though I have officially eschewed the institution of the former. But I have been married, and that marriage was plagued with trouble related to polyamory (and my ex being an asshole). And I have been in successful poly relationships subsequently. So, yeah, I have THOUGHTS.
But I also had thoughts about Hilary Clinton's marriage (Still do. Fuck that guy.), long before the internet really existed for most of us. I think anytime any woman puts her marriage into the public discourse, or holds it up as goals in any way, women, especially, take that relationship personally. Is it right for us to do that? Probably not. But because women are so defined by our relationships, particularly the status of our romantic relationships, and we are also treated as a monolith (like all oppressed groups) we are downstream of any and all public perceptions of any woman. It's not fair, but it's true.
Lindy gets to make her own choices, whatever I may think about them. But the perception of her choices does potentially effect my life as a single woman contemplating whether or not to pursue romantic relationships and what structure might work. I wish that weren't the case. I wish I felt better about her choices. I wish I didn't want to reach through the screen and bitch slap her husband. But here we are.
For whatever it's worth, this is the sum total of what I will ever say about Lindy West's marriage, anywhere, ever again. "If you can't say something nice" feels appropriate.
I think you're really aptly pointing out another piece of interconnection-- West and Clinton are women navigating marriage with critiquable people (I mean, aren't we all? but I think you get the picture) in public, which then has implications for the terrain you walk as a woman being navigating romantic relationships. So even taking out the "I feel connected to this writer/political figure because I admire their work," there is a tie there, and that tie does matter and is interesting.
Love Lindy West’s writing that I have read, which is mostly short pieces here and there and her newsletter and Shit, Actually which made me laugh so hard. Hers are the only movie reviews I want (I mean except White Pages Oscar roundup, that was very useful). One of my sisters turned me on to her, and I took the parasocial thing to another level and paid her (Ms West) to do a 5 minute Cameo video for my sister for Xmas with personalized movie recs and now my sister and I both have this waaaaay over familiar sense about her. Neither of us have read her latest, and I’m not sure I will, because I’m sure I’ll Have Thoughts and spend a lot of time imagining how I should advise My Friend Lindy. If you’ve ever been in therapy with another person you know there are eleventeen sides to every story and that is usually per person. I will leave everyone with a quote from Rebecca Solnit on memoir writing that I think is great to remember also when you’re *reading* memoir or even just in any sort of communication:
every chapter you write is surrounded by those you don’t, every confession by what remains secret or indescribable or unremembered, and only so much of the chaos and fluidity of experience can be sifted and herded onto pages, whatever your intentions and even your themes. You’re not carving marble; you’re grabbing handfuls of flotsam from a turbulent river; you can arrange the detritus but you can’t write the whole river.
I'm enough of a Lindy fan to have gone to a SHRILL book signing (before the Hulu series) and thus own a signed and personalized copy, but I've kind of fallen away, mostly due to the fact that she and I aren't really on the same wavelength humor-wise (like, her newsletter is called Butt News, and she seems to get way more enjoyment out of fart jokes than I do*). I don't want to read this book because it seems unpleasant and, again, there are probably too many fart jokes in it for my taste. I must admit to devouring The Discourse, however, and found this piece by Leigh Stein particularly enlightening: https://substack.com/home/post/p-191707653
She quotes the Slate interview: “I need this book to be a success because everything’s so scary,” she told Scaachi Koul. “This has to float us for the next few years. I feel a pressure to take care of my family.” Writes Stein: "On page 40, the reader learns that Lindy has a $500 credit limit. During her road trip, Lindy’s lack of credit causes a problem when she can’t pay for her own hotel room: her sister-in-law has to wire money to her checking account. I was shocked by these details. Lindy is a New York Times bestselling author. According to Bookscan, Shrill has sold 69,000 copies in hardcover and paperback. It was on Hulu for three seasons. By any measure, she is a commercially successful writer who has been earning income by writing for YEARS. Where has all her money gone? On her Substack, Lindy has responded to questions of whether she is financially supporting Aham and his girlfriend Roya by calling these 'deranged, racist' questions." Lindy, it's not deranged when you basically admitted it! They live in HER HOUSE (inherited) and she sleeps in the guest room!!
* watch episode 2, season 2 of "Last One Laughing UK" for a very rare example of perfectly crafted flatulence humor.
Sue, I knew to trust my instincts to keep this newsletter relatively fart-joke free (also just not quite my speed humor-wise, but different jokes for different folks).
More to the point, you can totally avoid this question, but as somebody who did used to love West's writing but has been less connected to her in the past few years, what about the discourse has been so hard to turn away from? I mean, that may seem obvious (as you note, there are a lot of layers that make for speculation and intrigue) but what do you think has kept you engaged? [I tried answering the same question, and well, this essay came out lol]
I think it's just the fact that the way she perceives her situation is so different from the way outsiders perceive it, and yet she is just digging in more and more. To quote Lilla Al Fadji, could she be... delulu? A lot of observers seem convinced that eventually the scales will fall from her eyes and she'll realize that she was wrong. The Leigh Stein post I linked to above is a great example of someone who said essentially "Girl, I've been where you were, and thank goodness I got out."
But I am also obsessed with the kind of gossip where the celebrity THINKS they can control the narrative, and instead, everything flies off the rails. The Mormon housewife who was the Bachelorette for about a second (last week's Discourse, LOL) is another good example. Once you've released your story into the world by going on a reality show, writing a book, etc., you can't police people's reactions to it. I'm also fascinated by the recent Chappell Roan story—she legitimately seems to hate being in the public eye, and yet who in the year 2026 cannot be aware of some of the pitfalls that come with being a celebrity? You only have to look at the career trajectory of Taylor Swift—or, heck, Elizabeth Taylor—to see that.
Well those ARE really interesting dynamics, and well parsed. This isn't a trenchant statement, but I imagine that it's really hard being somebody with a West and above level profile/fame (always, but especially in this moment). So much of fame currently requires telling a story of self in public that is deeply relatable, but then when you're perceived that much by strangers it's natural to whiplash back and be like "you don't actually know or understand me." It's a dance of "please think that I'm enough like you that you feel a loyalty towards me and trust me as an interlocutor of your story, but don't think I'm so much like you that you can give me advice or have opinions about my actions." That must be really dizzying! And why I hope that they too have a rich, in person community.
As a writer and a memoirist (albeit not a famous one by any stretch of the imagination), I thoroughly enjoyed your ruminations on all of this. I do think that there is something inside of us that wants to connect with people who share some beliefs or characteristics with us (I am a white feminist who used to live in the same Pacific NW town as Lindy and saw her speak in person a few times and it was thrilling to think that we had things in common). And, sadly, I think that in our minds, we begin to create stories about all of the things that extrapolate from those thin connections - "well, Lindy would certainly feel the same way I do about X" - because we want (need? desperately crave?) that sense of belonging via confirmation bias. So when we discover that there is something fundamentally different about the way they think or live their life, those of us who haven't spent a lot of time practicing unconditional positive regard begin to feel betrayed or misled. It is a strange phenomenon that we either get angry or feel as though there is something "wrong" with that person that we now need to offer them advice to fix ("get divorced, Lindy!") rather than slowing down to realize that it is possible for us to witness someone else's story and identify deeply with parts of it while having other parts of it feel alien or frightening or downright "wrong," and still have affection for them and see them as worthy of our admiration. That was a lot of words, but clearly, you can see how this post struck a chord with me. ;-)
So grateful for this reflection, and it feels like an important addition to the conversation here. I love the presence to pause and notice what you’re putting onto a stranger and what lesson might be there for you. I realize that the unexamined version of those emotions often create some real messes (and must be really tough for legitimately famous people), but in a different light it makes me very optimistic. There’s something there… in that drive for connection, in all the feelings towards and for another person that we often put into the relative void of parasociality… that could help grow something really beautiful in our immediate relationships. I think you highlighted a really important reflective exercise to help unlock it.
No one who experiences me para-socially here will be surprised to find that I have THOUGHTS about Lindy West's marriage and memoir, even though I haven't read the latter and even though I have officially eschewed the institution of the former. But I have been married, and that marriage was plagued with trouble related to polyamory (and my ex being an asshole). And I have been in successful poly relationships subsequently. So, yeah, I have THOUGHTS.
But I also had thoughts about Hilary Clinton's marriage (Still do. Fuck that guy.), long before the internet really existed for most of us. I think anytime any woman puts her marriage into the public discourse, or holds it up as goals in any way, women, especially, take that relationship personally. Is it right for us to do that? Probably not. But because women are so defined by our relationships, particularly the status of our romantic relationships, and we are also treated as a monolith (like all oppressed groups) we are downstream of any and all public perceptions of any woman. It's not fair, but it's true.
Lindy gets to make her own choices, whatever I may think about them. But the perception of her choices does potentially effect my life as a single woman contemplating whether or not to pursue romantic relationships and what structure might work. I wish that weren't the case. I wish I felt better about her choices. I wish I didn't want to reach through the screen and bitch slap her husband. But here we are.
For whatever it's worth, this is the sum total of what I will ever say about Lindy West's marriage, anywhere, ever again. "If you can't say something nice" feels appropriate.
I think you're really aptly pointing out another piece of interconnection-- West and Clinton are women navigating marriage with critiquable people (I mean, aren't we all? but I think you get the picture) in public, which then has implications for the terrain you walk as a woman being navigating romantic relationships. So even taking out the "I feel connected to this writer/political figure because I admire their work," there is a tie there, and that tie does matter and is interesting.
Love Lindy West’s writing that I have read, which is mostly short pieces here and there and her newsletter and Shit, Actually which made me laugh so hard. Hers are the only movie reviews I want (I mean except White Pages Oscar roundup, that was very useful). One of my sisters turned me on to her, and I took the parasocial thing to another level and paid her (Ms West) to do a 5 minute Cameo video for my sister for Xmas with personalized movie recs and now my sister and I both have this waaaaay over familiar sense about her. Neither of us have read her latest, and I’m not sure I will, because I’m sure I’ll Have Thoughts and spend a lot of time imagining how I should advise My Friend Lindy. If you’ve ever been in therapy with another person you know there are eleventeen sides to every story and that is usually per person. I will leave everyone with a quote from Rebecca Solnit on memoir writing that I think is great to remember also when you’re *reading* memoir or even just in any sort of communication:
every chapter you write is surrounded by those you don’t, every confession by what remains secret or indescribable or unremembered, and only so much of the chaos and fluidity of experience can be sifted and herded onto pages, whatever your intentions and even your themes. You’re not carving marble; you’re grabbing handfuls of flotsam from a turbulent river; you can arrange the detritus but you can’t write the whole river.
Love that Solnit quote! It is such an odd human experience, both writing memoir and reading it, isn't it?
Off topic but is Three Cats Getting Married… my new Substack?
Sources say: LIKELY!
Brother I had to stop and write down "simulacra of relationships" in my journal and noodle on that for a minute LOL
Many such cases!
I'm enough of a Lindy fan to have gone to a SHRILL book signing (before the Hulu series) and thus own a signed and personalized copy, but I've kind of fallen away, mostly due to the fact that she and I aren't really on the same wavelength humor-wise (like, her newsletter is called Butt News, and she seems to get way more enjoyment out of fart jokes than I do*). I don't want to read this book because it seems unpleasant and, again, there are probably too many fart jokes in it for my taste. I must admit to devouring The Discourse, however, and found this piece by Leigh Stein particularly enlightening: https://substack.com/home/post/p-191707653
She quotes the Slate interview: “I need this book to be a success because everything’s so scary,” she told Scaachi Koul. “This has to float us for the next few years. I feel a pressure to take care of my family.” Writes Stein: "On page 40, the reader learns that Lindy has a $500 credit limit. During her road trip, Lindy’s lack of credit causes a problem when she can’t pay for her own hotel room: her sister-in-law has to wire money to her checking account. I was shocked by these details. Lindy is a New York Times bestselling author. According to Bookscan, Shrill has sold 69,000 copies in hardcover and paperback. It was on Hulu for three seasons. By any measure, she is a commercially successful writer who has been earning income by writing for YEARS. Where has all her money gone? On her Substack, Lindy has responded to questions of whether she is financially supporting Aham and his girlfriend Roya by calling these 'deranged, racist' questions." Lindy, it's not deranged when you basically admitted it! They live in HER HOUSE (inherited) and she sleeps in the guest room!!
* watch episode 2, season 2 of "Last One Laughing UK" for a very rare example of perfectly crafted flatulence humor.
Sue, I knew to trust my instincts to keep this newsletter relatively fart-joke free (also just not quite my speed humor-wise, but different jokes for different folks).
More to the point, you can totally avoid this question, but as somebody who did used to love West's writing but has been less connected to her in the past few years, what about the discourse has been so hard to turn away from? I mean, that may seem obvious (as you note, there are a lot of layers that make for speculation and intrigue) but what do you think has kept you engaged? [I tried answering the same question, and well, this essay came out lol]
I think it's just the fact that the way she perceives her situation is so different from the way outsiders perceive it, and yet she is just digging in more and more. To quote Lilla Al Fadji, could she be... delulu? A lot of observers seem convinced that eventually the scales will fall from her eyes and she'll realize that she was wrong. The Leigh Stein post I linked to above is a great example of someone who said essentially "Girl, I've been where you were, and thank goodness I got out."
But I am also obsessed with the kind of gossip where the celebrity THINKS they can control the narrative, and instead, everything flies off the rails. The Mormon housewife who was the Bachelorette for about a second (last week's Discourse, LOL) is another good example. Once you've released your story into the world by going on a reality show, writing a book, etc., you can't police people's reactions to it. I'm also fascinated by the recent Chappell Roan story—she legitimately seems to hate being in the public eye, and yet who in the year 2026 cannot be aware of some of the pitfalls that come with being a celebrity? You only have to look at the career trajectory of Taylor Swift—or, heck, Elizabeth Taylor—to see that.
Well those ARE really interesting dynamics, and well parsed. This isn't a trenchant statement, but I imagine that it's really hard being somebody with a West and above level profile/fame (always, but especially in this moment). So much of fame currently requires telling a story of self in public that is deeply relatable, but then when you're perceived that much by strangers it's natural to whiplash back and be like "you don't actually know or understand me." It's a dance of "please think that I'm enough like you that you feel a loyalty towards me and trust me as an interlocutor of your story, but don't think I'm so much like you that you can give me advice or have opinions about my actions." That must be really dizzying! And why I hope that they too have a rich, in person community.
This is so good and thoughtful and nuanced! Thank you for it.