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Stephanie Jennings's avatar

I feel like the racial element is always underplayed in these emigration discussions. I always point out that as a black woman, antiblackness is global and emigration to wealthy, western countries is difficult. I haven’t seriously looked into it, but the little research I’ve done, yeah…it’s not that easy to get an engineering job elsewhere.

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

100% and so well put. It's not just a privilege to be able to theoretically leave, but also to have a safe landing place.

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Stephanie Jennings's avatar

Which that isn't to say I haven't considered it or that I think America is the best place ever, but it's just always a certain type of white person romanticizing moving to Norway or wherever. And maybe I am going to regret this, it also just seems like someone has to stay and fight for America.

There's a novel I read a couple of years ago called In Every Mirror She's Black that followed three different black women trying to adapt in Sweden which talked about a lot of assimilation issues.

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

So appreciate you pointing this out. It's absolutely true, and it's not a minor point that it's much easier for my family (as white Americans) to be welcomed in Sweden than Black and Brown immigrants and Black and Brown Swedes. Great book rec as well.

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Becky G's avatar

If Sweden is like Norway in this regard (and it may or may not be), they may require several years of extra education to get licensed. Immigration (even if one calls it expatriation) isn't easy (in fact, it's intentionally difficult) in most, if not all, countries. So, while people you personally know may think it's a simple thing, the system and bureaucracy ensures that it is not.

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

It's a process, a bit less onerous than that, but definitely a process.

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Sue's avatar

I loved that book!! Muna's story was so heartbreaking, and the plotline about Kemi's job really demonstrated the importance of consensus to Swedes. There's a sequel called Everything Is Not Enough which I need to read at some point.

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Stephanie Jennings's avatar

Oh good to know there's a sequel! Will add to my list.

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Gretchen's avatar

Every time someone even jokes about fleeing the country, I get a pang of discomfort because it feels like abandonment? But I am someone who gets depressed even when a colleague I like leaves for another job, so that's probably a personal issue, lol. However, I think the majority of comfortable white people who talk this talk without real intentions or plans to go through on it are, to some extent, fantasizing about no longer having to feel responsible for things that are existentially concerning but not currently affecting their day-to-day. But from what I have heard from many actual ex-pats of multiple countries, the stress of knowing what is going on back home never goes away if you love and care about the people there. I think the sense of responsibility and connection many people are trying to escape is not disposed of so easily.

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

Just want to note that I too am very much a "get depressed even when a colleague leaves for another job" person (is that one of the reasons I'm no longer in a traditional workplace? Gonna unpack that).

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Gretchen's avatar

I’m inclined to believe that if you stuck me and all the people I like just about anywhere in the world I’d figure out how to be pretty okay! Which is to say your essay definitely resonated with me.

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KK's avatar

That's a really insightful point! Is the goal to escape America or to escape a feeling of responsibility?

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Gretchen's avatar

If you’ll allow me an ounce of pettiness… I am a bit skeptical when someone who can’t even be bothered to call their representatives or attend a protest tells me they’re seriously thing about moving to another country. I think a lot of people are fantasizing about a scenario of ease that simply does not exist.

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

One thing I just want to note-- everybody I know who has actually made a major move for political reasons is deeply engaged, both in activist work and in their community. I absolutely agree that there's a phenomenon of people talking about flight brazenly, but folks who actually go through that heart-wrenching of a move, in my experience, have thought deeply about the dynamics at play.

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Gretchen's avatar

Oh I absolutely know this is true, and I apologize if it seems like I was being dismissive of people who have made the move. I am sure they have some of the best perspective in fact. I am thinking of a few specific people who I should not be projecting upon everyone. Again, I apologize for the pettiness.

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

I totally get it! It's a complicated topic to discuss because there's multiple things going on at once-- the "I'M LEAVING" discourse (often disconnected from any practical consideration of a move) and the actual decision that people make to leave.

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CharleyCarp's avatar

For reasons I can't even begin to guess, we Americans, as a society, have apparently decided to abandon all public support of advanced medical research. People involved in that field should definitely be looking at offers from Canada, Germany, wherever. If the EU was a little quicker on the uptake, they'd have an office looking at every research grant Musk (or RFK) et all have cancelled, and be ready to make the same grant to the same people. Let them use US facilities for a grace period if that's possible. The point is that these studies have scientific value, and the US is voluntarily giving up any kind of leadership role.

Leadership in scientific/intellectual endeavors is just laying on the ground, waiting for someone to pick it up.

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

If folks are able to do good work for the betterment of humanity, but only in specific places, I'm definitely grateful for them finding their way to those places, for sure (and, like you, bemoan the fact that increasingly this country isn't one of those places).

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Stephanie Jennings's avatar

Giving up on research is painful (I have a STEM background). For all of Trump's bemoaning of imagined trade deficits, scientific research and academia are (were?) one thing we "exported" very well. People flocked all over the world to attend graduate school here and American academic research was (is?) well respected internationally. I have seen some countries starting to offer visas for scientists.

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

The brain drain is going to be absolutely catastrophic.

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CharleyCarp's avatar

There's an element of MAGA that definitely thinks the Khmer Rouge had the right idea. *You think you're smarter than me? Let's see how you like leaving your academic job and taking up coal mining!*

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Stephanie Jennings's avatar

If you don't mind kind of an irreverent take on history, Behind the Bastards has a three-part series on Pol Pot that was pretty interesting.

Also, coal mining jobs are disappearing. But I am guessing that is some of the same rhetoric around bringing back manufacturing as those are "real" jobs.

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Gail Bienstock's avatar

When I was young those moves seemed very possible, and after spending a semester in Italy, I was convinced that I must have roots there (not true) and needed to "go home." Israel in the '60s was less time, but even more intense. I watched young Kibbutz daddies shove their arms down the toilet drains because they'd rather lose an arm than a child to a potential bomb, and learned how to race for a safe room, swept floors, picked fruit in 100 degree weather with 98% humidity and no breeze, got jeered and stoned because I wasn't dressed appropriately as I wandered too close to an ultra-orthodox neighborhood, and wrote home that I felt like I was standing on the pulse of life and might never come home

In my 40s and 50s I watched parents move to FL from the Midwest and, surrounded by other friends who'd done the same, still struggle with adjusting as if they were in a foreign country.

Now, in my 80s, my deal is that I'll move one state over only if my internist retires because I can't bear the thought of losing that connection. As friends move to be closer to children and many die, I realize that there are always new opportunities to build new friendships in a country where privilege is my experience, the language is mine, and there are enough funds to survive relatively comfortably, even if I'm on the "B-list" of many groups I sit at the edge of.

At the same time I keep checking in with the work-folks who've become an integral part of my community, many of whom are People of Color, Latinx, L,G,B,T,Q+,and First Peoples to see what they need right now to survive, because they're really the ones on the front lines as we struggle to hold on to the ideal and keep fighting the good fight for the realization of that ideal of this land I still call home.

So no, I don't actually have a clue what it means to actually emigrate, but if it's this hard to just move from a familiar culture, setting, neighborhood, this difficult to create friendship groups and locate professional services that seem trustworthy, I'm not sure even privilege makes it an easy process.

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

I agree, Gail. It's never easy, and it's never uncomplicated (and also, loved getting these vignettes from your life story).

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Mare's avatar

"To leave a place you love is unbearable, but no more so than living in a place that doesn’t love you." Amen.

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

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Asha Sanaker's avatar

According to Timothy Snyder and his wife, Marci Shore, they have been in conversation with the University of Toronto for years. They also left the U.S. before the November elections, with no idea what would happen and likely not to return for the foreseeable future, even if Harris had been elected. Snyder had this to say in the Yale Daily News in April:

"Leaving Yale was a weighty decision for me and a difficult one. I chiefly want to express gratitude for my time at Yale, but I should say something about my decision. I moved to Toronto with my family last summer and at a time when Joe Biden was the president of the United States. Had Kamala Harris won the November election, I would not have come back. Indeed, the scenario I dreamed of last August was that Harris would win and that I would have more time for my scholarly work. Press coverage around my departure from Yale, prompted by a colleague, was something that I hadn’t expected and for which I wasn’t prepared. I took some time to check in Toronto in the fall on some family matters and the capacity of the university to support the projects with which I am engaged. I did not leave Yale because of anything Trump is doing; the chronology and the psychology are all wrong; I was not and am not fleeing anything."

Yes, they are privileged in their ability to leave, but the supposed why of their leaving has seemed a mischaracterization that fuels a certain narrative, or at least some drama, which the mainstream media largely runs on these days.

For myself, I appreciate his move from a private, Ivy League institution to a large, public university that is also, let's be real, practically a stone's throw from the U.S. I mean, if Trump were stupid enough to start something military with Canada, troops are gonna get to Toronto the first day. Not that that's going to happen (I hope), but it's not like they moved to somewhere posh in Europe. I could practically spit and hit them from where I live in Western NY.

Personally, I don't care why people leave. There are so many good reasons. I just hope enough people stay since I'm one of those that for sure can't afford to go.

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

I debated getting into the whole timeline issue for Snyder and Shore, but decided not to, because again the decision to leave-- whenever it was made and for whatever reason-- is a realy personal one for them. Now, one piece of advice I'd give them, is if this decision was completely disconnected from Trump's election, I wouldn't put out a NYT op-video about why this decision is very much about Trump, but that's communications advice!

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Asha Sanaker's avatar

I will confess, I never saw the video. I just saw the April statement and was like, "Makes sense. Toronto's lovely."

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

Nice streetcars! Great restaurants! A lake! What's not to love?

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Asha Sanaker's avatar

I might move there myself, if they'd have me. Which they will not. :P

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

Apparently the University of Toronto is hiring lol

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Mare's avatar

After the first Trump election, I inquired about moving to Canada. They said sure, they want to have retirees come. But now, maybe not!

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lee's avatar

toronto has many fine qualities but also insaaaaaanely expensive rent and bonkers zoning that make the city super low density and sprawly, plus their public transit is in rough shape after many years of austerity, alas

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

I also hear that because of years of austerity the University of Toronto no longer has a hundred million tenure track positions available for Americans looking to move North. Looking forward to Premier Ford correcting this quickly.

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CharleyCarp's avatar

Folks will recall that in the first Trump Admin, the Pres was hoping for refugees (or other immigrants, I suppose) from Norway.

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Emily's avatar

The more strong bonds we have to our community the far more difficult it is to imagine making the decision to permanently leave for another country. And for anyone with a spouse and/or kids the decision is much more nuanced because of their strong bonds. But I can imagine that when political actors seek to sever those strong bonds to make you feel increasingly insecure and therefore susceptible to the promises of authoritan leaders; for some that will make the possibility of leaving less unimagineable. I hope it remains a far off hypothetical for you Garrett and that you do continue to visit other places so when the time comes for your children to build the future, they have a wealth of different approaches from which to draw.

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Leah's avatar

Big "I'm not stuck in here with you, you're stuck in here with me" energy, in the best way.

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

Absolutely terrible news for my haters, lol

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David Simpson's avatar

Once again, a very thoughtful and generous essay. Thank you Garrett.

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

Thank you!

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Sue's avatar

As someone who hasn't been to Sweden since 2019 but is desperately hoping to go later this year, the glimpse of Pressbyrån in that last photo makes me feel achingly nostalgic. I can't just up and move there either, for a lot of reasons, but I miss it.

So, look, this was a gorgeous essay, but... Eurovision? Thoughts?? I was proud of my beloved KAJ even though they didn't win. The last 10 minutes of the results were so stressful (for reasons I am sure you can figure out). I can't stand "Wasted Love" but when it was announced as the winner, I felt VERY relieved. (And I'm sorry "Laika Party" didn't make it to the grand final!)

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

I too feel a jolt of nostalgia whenever I see the Pressbyrån logo.

As for Eurovision, a few thoughts:

1. What a gift to watch it live, with Kjersti's best Swedish friend, the very same person who first taught her to love Eurovision!

2. Shouts to my kids for staying up until 2:00 AM (it actually helped bc we flew back the next day so it inadvertently got us back on Milwaukee time).

3. It is now very clear that I am the only person on the planet who likes Laika Party and I'm OK with that.

4. Has there ever been a more chaotic voting period (both public and jury)? Oh my God NOTHING MADE SENSE.

5. And yes, all of a sudden it went from theoretical low stakes Eurovision stress ("I don't want that song to win") to actual, real stakes (there is absolutely no justification for why, if Russia is not currently allowed to compete, that Israel can not only compete but come close to winning).

6. When Austria ended up winning though (a song I actively disliked, lol), oh my God the celebration!

7. Also wonderful: walking back to our hotel and seeing the streets filled with people also walking home from their Eurovision parties.

8. I would die for the Italian Spokesperson Mouse.

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Sue's avatar

Me, to my therapist yesterday: "So you see, KAN, the which currently holds the public broadcasting license in Israel, is considered 'free and independent,' which is why they're still allowed to compete..."

(Of course, Moroccanoil, the main sponsor, is an Israeli company, which makes the whole thing a bit more sus)

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

hahhahahahahahhahaahha

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Julie's avatar

Lovely, heartfelt, thoughtful words followed by the perfect photo. Thank you.

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

Thank you Julie!

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Richard Holst's avatar

I don't remember how I first came across your writing on substack, probably a link from wonkette. I am so glad I found you.

"Hatred never ceases by hatred

But by love alone is healed.

This is an ancient and eternal law."

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

So glad to have you here, Richard!

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Ted Weiland's avatar

As someone who has moved around a fair amount for education and job opportunities, it's tough to pick up and move.

I've been living in this part of Iowa for almost 15 years, and the roots are quite deep. There are times when I have wanted to walk away from my job, and move someplace new, but it would be an enormous disruption to the many spaces I've made and inhabited, and I'm not quite ready to give those up.

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

I think you nailed it, Ted-- it's possible to simultaneously to be deeply rooted and still feel an ambivalence/angst about the place you're rooted.

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Julie Jones's avatar

Thanks Garrett. I think what I'll take back with me from being in Australia for 90 days- besides a couple bags of Minties and 0 jars of Vegemite - is the idea that something else is possible. I started to type "not really that hard", but of course we are where we are for a whole host of reasons. It's nice to know, though, that maybe what we have been told is impossible just isn't.

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

I appreciate you naming that, because that was definitely the feeling I'm taking away from Sweden. Sometimes staring directly at the potential other path is really liberating, even if you don't take it.

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Ryan Rose Weaver (she/hers)'s avatar

I too grew up on the edges of Zion, in Utah, and it didn't feel like "home" to me either. Now we've built a diverse community on the other side of the country with friends we've known for twenty years, and our kid is growing up alongside their kids, and it does feel like home, and that is why I don't currently want to leave, even if staying feels really, really hard and scary on most days too. I don't think I'd put together the two things -- the unbelonging I felt during my childhood, the reparative sense of belonging I am still in the midst of weaving together for my own child -- until now. Thanks for naming that.

Relatedly, have you read N.K. Jemisin's "The Ones Who Stay and Fight," written in response to Ursula K. LeGuin's "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas"? https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-ones-who-stay-and-fight/

I've been thinking about both of those stories a lot lately.

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Garrett Bucks's avatar

Oh I love knowing that I probably have, if not a glimpse into some of your childhood, at least knowledge of a parallel story. It's a lot, and my wife often finds that it's really hard for folks who didn't grow up in a majority LDS community to understand.

Also, I absolutely love this line: "the unbelonging I felt during my childhood, the reparative sense of belonging I am still weaving together..."

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